Bullshit. Yankee fan. What “advantage,” MF?
Luhnow said he didn’t know, but knock yourself out
You still have to hit the dang ball if you know what pitch is coming because someone stole a sign. This is all so stupid. Every professional baseball team will steal signs. You can’t tell me Houston is the only team that did this. Heck even high school teams steal signs. Boston had better get similar punishment. I can see maybe AJ getting fired if there had to be a scapegoat. Firing Lunhow is crazy.
I just want to give you an apology. You continually warned us that these types of punishments were coming, and some of us, myself included, questioned you.
Pretty discouraging for sure. Lots of time in RR and CC on the horizon.
i have had it with bias towards astros. f… ing baseball. Been following religiously since 1980. post on multiple web sites. i am done.
Being done with baseball or the Astros is just not an option with me. But goddammit I’m pissed.
Agreed. I’m ready for ST.
Yep. Pick up the pieces and play ball.
This is going to be an unpopular opinion around here, I know. It is not what I would have done. But I do understand why Crane made the move that he made today. The Astros(Crane) need a PR win. They(he) need to make peace with the media. From a dollars and cents perspective it makes sense as I’m sure he is feeling pressure from advertisers. Then there is the possibility that he actually did say, in September 2017, that if they were doing anything to knock it off and they didn’t. If that is true then I can’t blame him for firing them.
It sucks that the Astros are going to be the scapegoat for something that is so obviously widespread but the Astros were so brazen, they basically told MLB, the media, the other teams to go fuck themselves for years and now it’s come back around. This in no way diminishes my feelings about 2017, that was the best team in baseball in my mind and would have won regardless. Fuck anyone who says different. The fact that the team continued to win 100+ games without “cheating” proves they didn’t need it.
The Astros are NOT finished. The team is still among the best in the sport. They are still positioned to have a bright future. The right hires will need to be made to replace JL and AJ, but it can be done. I think any GM/Manager worth his salt will look at the Astros and say “yeah, I can win with that”
Again, not what I would have done if I were Crane. I would have said “fuck it, we’re the Patriots now. I don’t give a shit, just fucking win.” But I am not Crane.
Doyce my thoughts are all over the place today but I’m landing in your neighborhood.
The team should still compete at a high level this season. The GM hire is critical to make sure we don’t see another string of 100 loss teams when this crew’s day is done.
I think it has less to do with this:
And more to do with this:
I don’t think it was possible to salvage anything close to a PR win out of this. The fact that the organization is still getting ripped in the media is proof enough of that. The firings, as I see them, are solely about Hinch/Luhnow’s lack of oversight after Crane gave them a specific directive.
Haven’t been around in a while as I have nothing to add usually. But today is a sad day. I like Hinch and Lunhow. But it is what it is. Fiers, along with Cora, Manfred, and Logan Morrison can eat a bag of peckers.
I feel much the same Doyce. I don’t think Crane had much choice. I’m most upset about AJ. He just seems to be such a great human being that I find it hard to believe he got wrapped up in this mess. He made a serious mistake by not being more vocal about ending what he obviously knew was wrong. It cost him his job and he knew better. I guess he’s human like the rest of us. I wanted to puke when I saw Trevor Bauer’s tweet today with the Hinch video. Today was embarrassing for the franchise. It is a stain that will never be lifted, but perhaps will fade some, if/when we can win another title.
I just have so many different feelings and issues about all of this. One minute I’m pissed at the league. The next minute I’m pissed at our players for putting AJ, the franchise and the fans in this situation. This will be with this franchise for a long time to come.
The situation with Hinch is extremely odd. Hinch has always struck me as (1) a player’s manager, (2) a straight shooter, and (3) someone who doesn’t tolerate a bunch of crap. He knew better and says he didn’t like the scheme. So how did it go on?
Hinch reportedly destroyed the monitor twice. I can imagine a scenario where instead of focusing on what they’re supposed to be doing at the plate, the players are dicking around with the monitor and trash can, they misread a sign, and a guy makes an out in a key situation, costing them the game. And Hinch’s response is to destroy the monitor with a bat then go into the clubhouse and raise hell and chew everyone out.
But whatever the circumstances when the monitor was destroyed, given the respect Hinch appeared to command in the clubhouse, him destroying the monitor once should’ve been enough to put an end to it. But it was reinstalled, destroyed again, then reinstalled again. Were front office guys overruling Hinch and having it put back? Cora? The players themselves? It seems unlikely Cora and the players would do that, unless Hinch expressly assented to it.
It doesn’t really add up. Obviously Hinch should’ve displayed the leadership necessary to stop the cheating outright, as Jim points out. But for the guys to keep doing something highly illegal and risky that they know Hinch opposes?
If the players really did keep going knowing Hinch was not on board, they must feel absolutely miserable about it now. He lost his job because he failed to take a stronger stand against something they were doing wrong. The responsibility still falls on him. That goes with being manager. But it still sucks.
crane has been a creep from day one. he sold out the national league. so milealkie could actually compete. Then he sells out a good team management. i would resign as pitching coach if it was me, if i had integrity. game has zero integrity ti me. players not punished, other teams not punished. If i go back to my original team the yankees, they can do anything. reason i became an astros fan. they could buy anything. fiers was mad and incompetant. pitching coach should leave. integrity is in the eye of the beholdet.
No, integrity is not “in the eye of the beholder.” Integrity is doing the right thing no matter what anyone thinks or says. Hinch did not, and I am disappointed in him for not drawing a line with Cora, Beltran, and any other player who was involved.
The only possible justification for the firing is if, as others have said, Luhnow and Hinch violated a specific directive from Crane. That will get anyone in any job fired. Any other reason is nothing more than kissing Manfred’s ass. His reason for not penalizing players in a “player-driven system” is laughable. Surely his stool pigeons knew exactly who was doing what.
I am angry and sick about this. Nothing like this has ever happened to one of “my” teams in a lifetime of fandom. When are the players going to speak up? Do they have the guts to do so? They disappoint me also.
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They players’ silence on this is deafening. It’s only a been a day, so I’ll give it a few more, but if they remain silent, it’ll clearly demonstrate to me how little respect they have for A.J. Hinch.
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Yesterday work had me under an avalanche that I’m just now digging out of…I’m slowly getting caught up on this mess.
To me Manfred is a coward. He wanted a scapegoat to sacrifice to make a statement and thanks to Fiers he got one. This is not an Astros problem but Manfred wants sweep this under the rug as quickly as possible.
Losing AJ AND Luknow just makes me sick to my stomach.
Losing the draft picks just seems like it’s punishing the fans.
Is there any other example of the ones that actually broke the rules (players) getting nothing in any other life scenario?