Y’all should give the new WSJ article a read. There’s a lot to it, but I’m most struck by how Luhnow comes off. Pure chickenshit. Can’t acknowledge responsibility or accept consequences. First he blames subordinates when he gets fired, now he goes with the “I didn’t read to the bottom of the extremely incriminating emails I received and replied to” defense. Just a coward through and through.
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So for those of us who can’t get past the WSJ paywall:
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Was the sign stealing/decoding operation illegal from the get-go, even before there was real time stealing/relaying? Isn’t that just scouting in the 21st Century, like what Verducci described in the Dodger piece?
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Luhnow looks worse at every step. Like he has no idea how the outside world perceives him. How early does it look like he knew something?
I’ll hang up and listen.
From the article:
These people described the situation as a “he said-he said” between Luhnow and Tom Koch-Weser, the team’s director of advance information, who sent two emails to Luhnow in 2017 that referenced “the system” and “our dark arts, sign-stealing department.”
Koch-Weser alleges he told Luhnow about the system in several meetings, starting in 2016, which Luhnow denies. Other employees such as Matt Hogan say Luhnow was fully aware of Codebreaker and the work in the video room, which was never hidden from view. Again, Luhnow denies that. The intern who came up with the Codebreaker spreadsheet (it included an algorithm to help correspond a signal to a pitch) doesn’t recall explicity telling Luhnow whether the system would be used in game, or during post game video analysis, but believes it was the former because, “that’s where the value lies.” Once again, Luhnow denies that.
There’s also a reference to a letter from Manfred stating that Luhnow knew about the system, but MLB can’t definitively prove it.
An Excel spreadsheet? Either that guy was Allen Fucking Turing reincarnated, or this system wasn’t particularly complicated.
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So, this WSJ article, which I haven’t and can’t read, apparently says that the “Codebreaker” system was deployed in home and road games. That would be significant if you ask me. To this point, the Astros have only been implicated in cheating at MMP if I’m not mistaken.
For those who have read the article, does it go into any detail about what was done on the road? Were they banging trash cans at opposing stadiums as well?
Again, major question here:
Is using technology (the game video, or spy cameras) to learn the other teams signs illegal in a scouting (no in-game communication) situation?
e.g. Game 1 of a series is played, the video crew says ‘ok boys, this was their sequence for a curve, this was the changeup…’ etc. All this done ostensibly for the runner on 2nd.
I do not believe that’s illegal.
If that’s the case then the WSJ piece would seem to be more damaging to Luhnow’s attempt to claim plausible deniability rather than any new info on the on field implementation.
Anyone else see AJ’s interview tonight? I thought AJ looked tired, which is understandable. I think he is sincerely sorry about what happened and overall his interview made me even more upset with the players, if that is even possible. He clearly took the bullet as the guy who was in the dugout and responsible for what goes on down there.
One answer he gave did me a little pause however. Verducci asked him about Altuve and others wearing a buzzer in 2019. Verducci’s question was point blank. Can you assure everyone that wasn’t going on. I would have loved for AJ to give a forceful YES, I can assure everyone that didn’t happen. That isn’t what he said however. He, in my opinion, kind of deflected the question and referred to the fact that the commissioner did as thorough an investigation as possible and AJ said, “I believe him,” meaning Manfred and his report.
I guess that was AJ’s way of saying no, they didn’t wear buzzers, but I would have preferred it said differently.
One last thing. Former Rockies GM Dan O’Dowd said he would hire AJ in a heartbeat once his suspension is over.
Hell, no.
Nobody has ever asserted it is against the rules to use a center-field video feed to study signs, per se. And it’s not illegal for a runner on base to signal to the hitter based on what he sees with his eyes and the pregame information provided to him based on the scouting process. The issue involves live video and analysis relayed to the batter.
Thanks for the responses.
So the WSJ article simply unveiled how signs were deciphered, and revealed that the FO played a role in that.
And deciphering signs isn’t illegal, and in fact has been done by every team since forever.
And scouting signs on the road isn’t illegal either.
Exactly. Every team uses spreadsheets and algorithms to breakdown pitches and signs. Using spreadsheets is not wrong or against the rules. The real time relay of information to the batter is where the Astros crossed the line and that only happened at home. Still, the hyenas circle and howl.
Yep. That article added virtually no new information and only serves to take advantage of the timing to come out on the day of Hinch’s interview. It’s a shock piece that shouldn’t make any difference whatsoever but will somehow validate everyone’s opinions about the Astros. Fuck it
Astros County has a good summary:
Sounds like the real impact of the piece was to cast doubt on Luhnow. The twitterati of course act shocked that a team would gasp try to learn their opponent’s signs.
Several insider reports yesterday that the Red Sox will not be punished, or that it will be very minimal. Which is what we all expected anyway.
That’s so unfair, but, as you said, expected. Does that mean Alex Cora was fired without cause? Could he successfully sue the Red Sox?
This is beyond strange. The sources for the original Athletic story said this was player driven (with the exception of Cora). The MLB investigation appeared to confirm this, with a number of players cooperating and telling the same story.
The WSJ story pretty much says that the players were lying (and the ones who went to the press were lying from the start). It hints at a coverup by Manfred/MLB. But why would players make themselves look bad to cover for Luhnow? Why would Manfred cover for the person he ended up suspending anyway, effectively ending his MLB career? Why would he cover for the low level (and non-unionized) employees who allegedly designed the spying scheme?
What the actual fuck?
FO Type: You want signs? Hang on.
/nerd stuff/
Here you go.
(All this is legal)
Beltran: Hey, in we used cameras and a relay system.
Cora: you know what I hate? Trash cans.
(Illegal starts here)
Getting the signs and implementing them are 2 different things. The FO/GM feigning ignorance on signaling is dubious. The players are covering their asses only (not lying for the FO) and the shitstorm may well convince potential whistleblowers on other teams to retreat back into the shadows.
Rosenthal, we’re waiting.
Something before Manfred’s planned rug sweeping of Boston’s actions would be appreciated.
CFM weighed in today. He “wishes he had done more” to stop it.
What did you do, Charlie? Are you going to throw the organization which had the faith to make you great under the bus?