Punishments are official

Has anybody ever come out and said which part of the “sign stealing scheme” that Luhnow supposedly got emails about?

Like I mentioned earlier, there are two parts to the commissioners report on what the Astros did.

#1 was Alex Cora and Carlos Beltran scheme to ramp up the sign stealing, supposedly based on what Beltran had participated in on another team. This involved putting a monitor in the tunnel, using an existing camera feed in centerfield, a player watching, and relaying to the hitter by banging a trashcan. Is this what Luhnow knew about?

#2 is the Astros using the replay room as a venue for sign codebreaking, and then relaying the sign sequences via the replay phone or through runners to the dugout for use by a runner on second base. This is also what the Yankees and Red Sox fiascos during this same season were about, and led to the Commissioner’s memo. I feel like this is what Luhnow probably knew about, and got emails about, because it would involve replay personnel and algorithms used to break signs. I also believe this or something similar was taking place in MANY clubhouses (of which 3 are basically confirmed), and led to the huge buildup in sign stealing tension league wide in 2017 and through 2018.

Its difficult to know what someone is actually talking about when they claim they have evidence that Luhnow knew about “the sign stealing scheme.” Luhnow may have gotten emails about #2, but may have been totally ignorant of #1. However, #1 is the only part of this that most people focus on and get up in arms about and focus on. Of course the waters get even muddier because most morons still believe that there were buzzers and shit that never happened. In addition, if it is only #2 that he got emails on, was this before or after the commissioner’s memo? Before or after the Red Sox and Yankees stuff?

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In any event, it probably doesnt matter much, as Luhnow seems to be struggling to gain the upper hand PR wise. The scandal was definitely enough cause to fire his ass just like Hinch. I hope somebody in the national league hires him, and I hope he has success becasuse of what he built here, but I also hope this so that the vultures can go circle somebody else.

If Hinch didn’t know there was electronically enhanced cheating going on, then why did he bust up the TV monitor? Twice, I believe.

Hinch and Luhnow both got what they had coming. Hinch’s culpability is at least equal to Luhnow’s. It’s a damn shame as they were both the best in Astros’ history at their jobs.

I also believe there was selective enforcement, but that’s another discussion.

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The Astros home splits were so bad in 2017, that I still wonder if AJ busted up the monitors because he viewed it as a distraction that wasn’t working vs something he felt was wrong. Destroying the monitor seems more like something you’d do out of frustration after a loss than a way to take some kind of moral stand.

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Everyone in the dugout knew.

Julia may have known.

And more importantly everyone knew better.

I suspect when it finally went away it was because someone figured out that it wasn’t having the desired effect, rather than a sudden attack of conscience.

The conventional wisdom among the haters is if you know what is coming, you will get a hit. That is not the way it works at all.

No one said Hinch did not know. Many have said Luhnow did not share the Commissioner’s memo with him. Everyone in the dugout had to know, and a player (Beltran) was the architect.

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As I remembered it it was 2018 when the home numbers were so bad.

Also: when did they get rid of Tal’s Hill etc.? After the World Series or before?

I’ve heard good things about the Reitner podcast, btw.

Yep. All these schemes fizzle out. As players become more dependent on and devote more concentration to the crutch, they lose focus on the pitcher and hitting the pitch. Get one false tip off and you’ll be in worse shape than if there had been no system at all. The Astros finally dropped the system completely in '18 because nobody thought it was doing them any good.

Stealing signs, and giving pitches to hitters never “fizzles out.” Being incorrect occasionally is part of it. This goes on in every team and will continue forever. Using cameras to do it is what was wrong.

Agreed. I wasn’t talking about normal discovery of pitch tipping or stealing signs on the field. Those are both legal and an eternal part of the game.

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They hit worse at home in both 2017 and 2018. The Astros scored 501 runs on the road and 395 runs at home in 2017. The W/L split was slightly worse in 2018 than in 2017 but in terms of offense the Astros hit worse at home in 2017 than 2018 compared to what they did on the road.

The hill was removed before 2017

Pop quiz:

Mariano Rivera is pitching in his prime. What’s he gonna throw?

Good luck hitting it.

The conventional wisdom is that no Astro would have made contact with a pitch from 2017-2019. They would have gone 0-486 over that period, with exactly zero hits. Haters gotta hate.

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Exactly. Same with Buehler’s fast ball.

I expected nothing less in response from you. Congrats

Sorry if I hurt your feelings. If you prefer, I could use the wise words of JimR himself and just say Fuck off

Posts 2 and 3 were no better than post 1. Go back under your rock, creep, and go fuck yourself.

U FOO!

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Go fuck yourself, butt hurt little bitch.

Eat shit and die, whiny little bitch