Don’t remember how good Biggio was as a catcher, but grateful for the transition to 2B that lengthened his career & for Altuve who has covered 2B so well since.
Not submitted as an argument, but I was curious about what theoretically the highest peaks are for performance rather than looking at entire careers at once. I think most would agree that Bagwell in 1994 is the greatest season by an Astros position player (according to bWAR though this actually is second to Biggio in 1997 and Bregman in 2019, and maybe there would be lots of arguments about number of games and broken hands before that would be resolved.)
According to bWAR these are currently the highest 3 year, 4 year, and 5 year peaks that I can find.
3 Year
Bagwell (21.5)
Biggio (21.4)
Cedeno (21.2)
Bregman (20.8)
Altuve (20.7)
4 Year
Bagwell (28.9)
Biggio (27.7)
Cedeno (25.6)
Altuve (25.1)
Bregman (22.8)
Wynn (22.7)
Berkman (22.6)
Correa (21.6)
5 Year
Bagwell (34.6)
Biggio (32.8)
Cedeno (31.5)
Altuve (30.2)
Wynn (28.6)
Berkman (25.8)
Correa (25.3)
Bregman (24.5)
Cruz (23.8)
Springer (23.6)
Doran (22.4)
Bregman is kind in the very top tier of players in terms of his 3 year peak, but more kind of in a second tier in terms of 4 and 5 year so far. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that the 2020 pandemic year has had an impact on Correa and Bregman’s 4 and 5 year peaks with the Astros (injury also hampered both in kind of the middle of their time here as well).
As for myself, regardless of WAR stats or whatever, Jeff Bagwell in his prime is still the greatest Astros player I’ve ever seen. As we get further in time I’m sure more and more he’ll get considered as “just a first baseman” defensively or whatever, but probably is the most ridiculous defensive first baseman I’ve ever seen play, and absolutely a ridiculously high baseball IQ player on the field and running the bases as well.
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This is very interesting to me
2020 expanded out to 162 games would add 1.9 bWAR for Bregman and 2.9 for Correa.
Of course its a counting stat so that can’t be added as actual performance.
Of course considering any adjustment would also require looking at 1981, 1994, 1995 etc as you alluded to
Both Bregman and Correa are hurt ( no pun intended) by injuries in these comparisons. Bregman still has a chance to have 3, 4, or 5 great years and rewrite his place on these lists. Correa doesn’t
Obviously the 5 year peak is more indicative of value to the organization.
I think 6 would be perfect because it coordinates with the pre and arbitration timeframe an organization has a player before free agency.
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I would add even if he doesn’t move up a list like this Alex Bregman is a damn good baseball player and the Astros did great picking him at #2.
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I think 5 year is pretty solid, in most cases that first year of club control, you’re talking about a rookie getting his feet wet, and often not a full season anyway. Correa and Bregman type highly drafted superstars brought up to play and start at the exact moment that maximizes club control would benefit, I suppose.
You can never count the chickens, but hopefully we have a couple other players who will be blowing up onto these lists in the next 3 years also. The talent in the organization has (stating the obvious) been incredible during this run.
Very good points. But putting Ruth’s record has all ready been broken 8 times. Other than Tris speaker, he is the only one ever with 50+ doubles and 50+ SB’s in a season. Bagwell was my favorite also.
My two cents:
Bagwell was the best player, and I don’t expect anyone on the current roster to exceed him - even Yordan.
Biggio had the best career, but Altuve has a chance to surpass that.
And Wynn easily is both the most underrated player and underrated career, because he should be in the HOF.
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Cesar Cedeno is the most couldabeen player in the history of MLB
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Leo Durocher looked at Cedeno and saw Willie Mays, but underestimated his injury issues real and imagined
Bo Jackson
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Good call, if he hadn’t played football
I’ll never forget the “gold” seat with the image of a toy cannon painted on it for Wynn; and, of course, the one with the rooster painted on it for Doug Rader. Both for ginormous HRs hit into those seats.
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Bo was an amazing athlete. You watched him just to see what amazing thing he might do. However, I am not sure he would have ever hit for average to be a true 5 tool player.
If he had never played football, I think he would have been as good as Mike Trout.
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5 tool? Maybe not, but in baseball full time, I think he would have broken 600 HR with Clemente-level defense.
Bregman also has the greatest HEB commercials of any Astro.
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As a Tampa Bay Bucs fan I could never get over my disdain of Bo Jackson.
Clemente-level arm, maybe, but not glove.
The man could break a bat better than anyone I’ve ever seen.