A Republic, If You Can Keep It

[AstrosFanInBigD]

My 2 cent analysis is they lost this election when they trotted out Joe Biden in the last election.

[JimR (Coach)]

Of course they do. It is called “Government” now.

[AstrosFanInBigD]

My HS senior just completed his required government class.

[Col.SphinxDrummond]

@DVauthrin

But, would it have mattered in Wisconsin, etc?

We’ll never know.

[Limey (Ray Ward)]

@JBM

She lost support in almost every state. Would Shapiro have changed that?

When the numbers are finally done, we’re going to see that Trump hasn’t added to his 2020 numbers. We’ll find out that millions of people who voted for Biden, didn’t vote for Harris.

It’s looking like the only way that could’ve been changed was by having, say, Gavin Newsome at the top of the ticket. But that would’ve lead to a Democratic Party civil war that would’ve destroyed his electoral chances.

[AstrosFanInBigD]

I’m guessing they didn’t want a Jewish VP candidate.

(Not bc of anti-semitism on their part but for fear of backlash from pro-Palestinian voters)

[Col.SphinxDrummond]

@JimR

Of course they do. It is called “Government” now.

I stand corrected.

[Limey (Ray Ward)]

@JimR

The country is far more right wing than it was after civil rights became a thing.

I saw a comment on social media that we just lost the Cold War. We may have just lost the Civil War too.

[Limey (Ray Ward)]

@AstrosFanInBigD

My 2 cent analysis is they lost this election when they trotted out Joe Biden in the last election.

You can trace it back to 2000, when the GOP actually stole an election, and got to put Roberts and “second choice” Alito on the Supreme Court. Imagine if Gore had got those two picks…

[AstrosFanInBigD]

Ray you may be better able to comment on this, but it seems to me that our right wing now feels more like some of what the British right wing has been for the last century or so (openly xenophobic etc).

[JBM]

I doubt he would have won either, because of the turmoil you describe. Anyways, as mentioned upthread, Democrats have some soul searching to do, and rather than a top-down solution, I hope the top does relatively little but provide support and money and allows the bottom to figure out candidates.

[Knoxbanedoodle (Devin Walsh)]

@Waldo

The DNC has a lot of shit to figure out

I hope they’re liberated by this loss.

The problem with the Democratic Party for quite a while now has been the Republican Party: when one party is a fire the other party has to be firefighters. This stifled dissent even as the tent widened to accommodate exiled conservatives; it reinforced the status quo by default.

[Waldo]

@Knoxbanedoodle

I hope they’re liberated by this loss.

Exactly. Be who you claim to be. I, for one, would like to see a Buttigieg type as the future of the Democratic party. Gavin Newsom? Get the fuck outta here.

[HudsonHawk]

So just grist for the mill…I’ve talked with three different women in my office, all with advanced degrees, all who voted for Trump. All three of them said they’d have voted for Biden, but they will not vote for a woman because they feel women act impulsively and make emotional decisions.

[JimR (Coach)]

You outed yourself with “civics.”

[Limey (Ray Ward)]

@AstrosFanInBigD

Ray you may be better able to comment on this, but it seems to me that our right wing now feels more like some of what the British right wing has been for the last century or so (openly xenophobic etc).

I’ve been gone from Limeyland for 30 years now, so I’m not sure I have any more insight than anyone else observing from afar. When I first moved here I remember being shocked at how conservative the “liberals” in US politics were. To me at the time, Bill Clinton was far from what I was used to seeing from the left wing party so the conservative side of the spectrum seemed way off.

Of course, the UK got social media and a Murdoch news channel (to go along with his print outlets), and the right wing became the same populist/nihilist movement that we have been enjoying here too. Liz Truss crashed the economy within days of taking the helm, which would be like us putting Marjorie Taylor Greene in charge…which may yet happen.

[Limey (Ray Ward)]

@Waldo

Gavin Newsom? Get the fuck outta here.

I only picked Newsome because he’s a white guy which seems to be a bright line even with regular Democratic voters.

[das (david shive)]

@Limey

You can’t persuade unpersuadable voters. What is clear now is that there is a swath of racism and misogyny in the voting population that keeps its bigotry quiet until it hits the ballot box.

@JimR

I personally believe Kamala, unlike Clinton, ran an excellent campaign. Questioning it now is the wisdom of 20-20 hindsight. Tell your blue friends to become professional political advisors. The Democratic Party has seen its traditional base erode.

@limey, I believe this is indeed the case. That post in the other thread I made a couple of weeks ago that referenced the Stanford PolySci professor’s comment that there is a 1.5-2.5% Trump plusup not represented in any of the polls speaks to this. When asked what was underlying that number, he said, “people in the center have thoughts and feelings around race and gender that they are unwilling to share publicly and even privately but will indeed orchestrate their vote around”.

@JimR , She is very active in the campaign. She is flummoxed by that erosion you mention. When I suggested to her that it might be because their message is no longer resonating, she agreed that the campaign saw that happening in real time but they were unable to change that messaging quickly enough to recapture those they were hemorrhaging. Which is fundamentally flawed thinking. If you will readily change your message to capture share, the foundation of your message must not be important OR the population you are trying to capture has shifted out from under you.

My initial reaction is this nation has shifted hard right into a previously unknown space and the Republicans have capitalized on that shifting farther right than even they have ever been in recent history. We’ll see if I think that after I’ve had more time to digest.

[Limey (Ray Ward)]

@HudsonHawk

All three of them said they’d have voted for Biden, but they will not vote for a woman because they feel women act impulsively and make emotional decisions.

While Trump is the poster child for being calm, cool and collected at all times. Got it.

[DVauthrin (David Vauthrin)]

@Limey

@JBM

She lost support in almost every state. Would Shapiro have changed that?

It’s looking like the only way that could’ve been changed was by having, say, Gavin Newsome at the top of the ticket. But that would’ve lead to a Democratic Party civil war that would’ve destroyed his electoral chances.

This is a huge issue within the Democratic Party. There are so many factions preventing everyone in it from supporting one candidate even before they earn the party’s nomination. The Republican Party doesn’t have that issue.

The other big issue is the Republicans typically all back their candidate’s messaging to the public. That doesn’t always happen in the Democratic Party.

The post-COVID economy probably had a lot to do with what happened last night, especially with young voters. I saw plenty of comments on social media leading up to the election about how someone couldn’t afford groceries or rent, so they would vote for Trump. People don’t understand that post-pandemic inflation isn’t Biden or Harris’ fault. They just know they are struggling to pay bills and want change.