COVID-19

[Bench]

@Snuffy

They need you. They - and their parents - need to return to something normal. The kids need a break from the boredom of electronics and not to lose all this learning time. They need some adult besides their parents to interact with them, to care about helping them learn - be better prepared for life.

What they need is competent governmental leadership so they can have those things.

[MarkR (Buford T. Justice)]

@Bench

What they need is competent governmental leadership so they can have those things.

Well, we definitely don’t have that. So lets kill some teachers instead!

[Snuffy]

I get it.
I get not wanting any more infections, hospitalizations, or deaths; any more people not being able to work/provide for their families; and any families to lose their home b/c they have lost their jobs/businesses.

I have seven grand kids, so I don’t want them to waste a year of their lives hooked on electronics, laying around the house, and “being bored”.

While I do NOT (added later) pretend to understand COVID, I am beginning to wonder which “expert” AND (added later) what “data” to trust.

• Who believes that China’s infections peaked during Feb @ 80K cases and have flattened since then?
• I wonder how many infections and deaths would have resulted had there been no devastating COVID depression brought on by the faith of officials in the flawed study from Imperial College in London?
  This quote from the NYT sums it up aptly: “people in this country have had enough of experts.”

I have to wonder how different everything would be if COVID did not occur during a election year…

Not HERE (added later) to argue, but would like to discuss this. I have more questions than answers, but I have some honest questions about some of the answers that I am getting.

Best regards,
Snuff

[JimR (Coach)]

Bullshit, Snuffy. Linking COVID to “election year” outs you. Go the fuck away.

[JBM]

It’s odd. Normally, when I hear about COVID in an election year, it’s some irrational conspiracy that Dems have orchestrated some fake disease and presumably hired crisis actors to populate the hospital beds, medical staff, coroners and to put in the coffins. No sane person can contemplate this and believe it’s some hoax.

The more legit and interesting question would be whether Trump would have acted more responsibly if it had not been an election year. I don’t know as I’m beyond trying to understand his stupidity and bad faith.

[Texifornia]

@Snuffy

Who believes that China’s infections peaked during Feb @ 80K cases and have flattened since then?

I have reason to doubt the total number, but I don’t doubt they have flattened their curve all the way to base. Remember how the measures taken in Wuhan were derided as “draconian”? Well, they worked. Those measures also worked in Italy where Chinese consultants were brought in to advise the Italian government after which measures were tightened and the disease brought under control.

@Snuffy

wonder how many infections and deaths would have resulted had there been no devastating COVID depression brought on by the faith of officials in the flawed study from Imperial College in London?

What flaws are you referring to? The total deaths predicted were not reached because of the shutdown. Explain how infections and deaths would have been less if no action were taken. Seriously, explain that.

@Snuffy

This quote from the NYT sums it up aptly: “people in this country have had enough of experts.”

Only morons think that. People that take medical advise from radio talk shows. Technical knowledge is not genetic, Trump isn’t a medical genius because his uncle was smart.

It normally takes years to decades to fully understand a virus. Why do you think everything should be known already? Why do you believe non-experts know more than experts?

@Snuffy

I have to wonder how different everything would be if COVID did not occur during a election year…

What’s your point? Do you think the virus is a “Democrat hoax”? Do you think Trump would have take it seriously in a non-election year?

[Limey (Ray Ward)]

@Snuffy

While I do pretend to understand COVID, I am beginning to wonder which “expert” what what “data” to trust.

• Who believes that China’s infections peaked during Feb @ 80K cases and have flattened since then?

What relevance is this to our runaway pandemic? If you’re still worried about China’s outbreak, then you’re buying into Trump’s “China Virus” bullshit.

@Snuffy

• I wonder how many infections and deaths would have resulted had there been no devastating COVID depression brought on by the faith of officials in the flawed study from Imperial College in London?

I am not sure what your point/question is here. Are you saying there would have been fewer deaths without the economic catastrophe? That the lockdowns weren’t necessary?

The UK and US got first hit with the virus at about the same time. Yesterday the UK recorded 950 new cases; the US recorded 1,203 new deaths.

@Snuffy

This quote from the NYT sums it up aptly: “people in this country have had enough of experts.”

I cannot read the linked article. I will say this in defense of actual experts: they give their advice based on current expertise and knowledge; both of which evolve over time as they should. That expert advice has changed since January/February/March is a feature, not a bug.

[Bench]

@JBM

The more legit and interesting question would be whether Trump would have acted more responsibly if it had not been an election year. I don’t know as I’m beyond trying to understand his stupidity and bad faith.

That’s the thing. He would have dramatically improved his reelection chances if he handled it with any sort of responsibility. He’s just incapable of doing that.

Look at Cuomo. He wasn’t a popular politician going into this. New York didn’t handle the pandemic very well at all early on. But he was honest, accountable, truthful and compassionate throughout the crises, and is being appreciated for it.

[Texifornia]

@Bench

That’s the thing. He would have dramatically improved his reelection chances if he handled it with any sort of responsibility. He’s just incapable of doing that.

That’s just it. He even saw a bump in his polls in March because people wanted him to do well. Only after it was apparent he was flailing miserably did his poll numbers drop. The pandemic was Trump’s ticket to easy reelection, he was just too lazy and disinterested to see that.

Testing is so bad that positive results are returning a week after the patient has died. No, those don’t “count” as COVID 19 deaths in most places.

Dr. Fauci has had to hire security for his family. Trump supporters have threatened the lives of his wife and daughters.

[MarkR (Buford T. Justice)]

@Texifornia

That’s just it. He even saw a bump in his polls in March because people wanted him to do well. Only after it was apparent he was flailing miserably did his poll numbers drop. The pandemic was Trump’s ticket to easy reelection, he was just too lazy and disinterested to see that.

This was literally the first actual crisis his administration faced (that wasn’t a made up crisis by his own admin or was his own doing to begin with) and he not only shit the bed, but also the hallway, the bathroom, then the hallway again, then mommy and daddy’s room crying about it.

If Trump had even a slight inkling of leadership and/or compassion, he could’ve coasted to reelection by doing ANYTHING other than "It is what it is"ing.

[Waldo]

@Bench

That’s the thing. He would have dramatically improved his reelection chances if he handled it with any sort of responsibility.

Not only that, I think he would have coasted to reelection. Use every sports analogy you can think of - tap in, lay up, fat pitch over the middle, open goal - and he gagged on it, either by doing the right thing at the wrong time (i.e. way too late) or by doing the diametrically wrong thing. Had he taken steps to prepare in January/February, then March/April/May would’ve been a lot less painful and the school discussion happening right now wouldn’t even be a discussion. He could have capitalized on his impeachment acquittal and the Dems nominating a candidate no one was super excited about. It couldn’t have been an easier path to reelection, but he couldn’t get out of his own way and now he’s having to pay for campaign ads in Texas.

[Snuffy]

Thanks for responding, Coach. Sorry that was a trigger. I became an Independent years ago. Just seeking discussion, if possible.

That’s a honest question for me, among others like the collateral damages from COVID, such as suicides by those on the front line in medicine, law enforcement, and care givers as well as those that are despairing such calamities like loss of job/home/both.

I want to trust the science and the data/sources that are informing precautions being taken. In addition to those dying bc of protocols are being ignored, I would wonder how many others are dying needlessly for other reasons.

[Texifornia]

@Waldo

It couldn’t have been an easier path to reelection, but he couldn’t get out of his own way and now he’s having to pay for campaign ads in Texas.

Yep. Now, as evidenced by Snuffy’s “questions” above, right wing media is settling on it’s message:

The virus isn’t that bad.
Trump is the real victim.
You can’t trust experts.

[JimR (Coach)]

Get the fuck somewhere else to “seek discussion,” Snuffy. As soon as I figure out how to ignore you, I will so I no longer have to read your disingenuous bullshit. Go the fuck away.

[Limey (Ray Ward)]

@Snuffy

I want to trust the science and the data/sources that are informing precautions being taken. In addition to those dying bc of protocols are being ignored, I would wonder how many others are dying needlessly for other reasons.

Who is dying needlessly for other reasons?

[JBM]

@Snuffy

That’s a honest question for me, among others like the collateral damages from COVID, such as suicides by those on the front line in medicine, law enforcement, and care givers as well as those that are despairing such calamities like loss of job/home/both.

I want to trust the science and the data/sources that are informing precautions being taken. In addition to those dying bc of protocols are being ignored, I would wonder how many others are dying needlessly for other reasons.

So, if we did nothing, and hospitals were overrun and deaths were more in line with the model you question, how would that have affected mental health? I know my mental health would be far worse: I’d personally know more people who would have died, I’d know of more people who needlessly died and to top it all off, the economy would be far worse (Yes, it would be, if you honestly think it through).

It’s odd that you use critical thinking to focus on the downsides of shutdowns, but abandon critical thinking when contemplating (or refusing to contemplate) if no actions were taken.

[JimR (Coach)]

Please do not engage this disingenuous wacko.

[Limey (Ray Ward)]

@JBM

So, if we did nothing, and hospitals were overrun and deaths were more in line with the model you question, how would that have affected mental health? I know my mental health would be far worse: I’d personally know more people who would have died, I’d know of more people who needlessly died and to top it all off, the economy would be far worse (Yes, it would be, if you honestly think it through).

It’s odd that you use critical thinking to focus on the downsides of shutdowns, but abandon critical thinking when contemplating (or refusing to contemplate) if no actions were taken.

We don’t have to imagine this as a theoretical situation; this is exactly what happened in New York. Cuomo and di Blasio sleepwalked into the pandemic (NYC was behind even Texas in imposing restrictions) and they got whacked hard by the virus. Their hospitals were overrun, the direct death toll was horrific, the increase in deaths at home was exponential, bodies were piled in refrigerated trucks or buried in temporary graves in city parks. They solved it by locking down hard.

As a result, they have crushed the curve and now have a positive test rate of 1%. Contrast that with Texas which is running at about a 12% positive test rate.

Here’s what New York’s nightmare-into-success story looks like:

Here’s what the whole of the US looks like - and just remember that this includes New York’s flattened-to-near-zero curve:

That first hump is almost exclusively New York. The plateau and then new hump is the rest of the country. Trump could’ve prevented a lot of that by just giving experts and state/local leaders the wiggle room to require people to wear masks. His ego couldn’t allow even that, and so tens of thousands of more people had to die.

[Snuffy]

Whoa, should have expected a fire hydrant response. I have neither a quick mind, nimble fingers, or much time to post. Plan 3 hours wt 4 grand kids and a nap this afternoon while recovering from half a day wt three other grandsons yesterday.

So responses will be slow.

Not here to defend Trump, but I see obvious bias when watching either CNN-CNBC-MSNBC-FNN. Wonder if everyone is on the planet. Don’t know what to believe.

Know a little about how critical pure/unbiased data is to making reliable projections. I find some data appears to be more useful than others. This is vital when lives depend on it

While It’s tempting to only seek “confirmation” data, how do you know which data/conclusions to trust?

Thanks,
Snuff

[Bench]

7-year-old becomes youngest to die of coronavirus in Georgia